Speaker 1: 0:00

One of the things that is kind of driving me crazy and we're having a conversation with a couple of HR departments because on one hand, we're saying, oh, we need all this talent, we need entry-level cybersecurity technicians, we need entry-level agile scrum masters, but then you look at the job description and it's like you need a data scientist scientists. You're trying to pay entry-level pay to someone who has data scientist skills, which is just not working right.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Hey everyone, this is Mike Roberts, creator of the Apprenticeship Playbook, and you're tuned in to the Skills First podcast. In today's world, skills First, hiring is revolutionizing the job market and on this show I sit down with trailblazers who are rethinking hiring practices and embracing experiential learning, as well as the people impacted. Follow along as we dive into tips, innovative ideas and proven strategies to help you navigate and thrive in the evolving landscape of modern apprenticeships. Can you tell us who you are and what is it? Help you navigate and thrive in the evolving landscape of modern apprenticeships? Can you tell us who you are and what is it that you do?

Speaker 1: 1:11

Yes, so my name is Vanessa Russell. I'm the founding executive director of Love Never Fails. We are a national anti-trafficking organization that was founded 11 years ago after one of my 15-year-old dance students was exploited, was actually sexually assaulted in Hayward, california and sold throughout the state for a year, and since then we have opened up many houses and we've become a state-certified cybersecurity pre-apprenticeship program. We have a tech academy called ITBiz, and then we do prevention education, a bunch of other stuff as well. We're really entrenched in helping underserved, under-resourced community members, which may be vulnerable to human trafficking, really develop themselves and become all that they can be, you know, live their best life.

Speaker 1: 2:03

There, you go and where are you located? Located in the Bay Area, san Francisco Bay Area, actually, originally from San Francisco, well, originally originally from Pennsylvania, but was raised in San Francisco, and now I am in the in San Joaquin County, and then we have offices in Hayward, dublin, king County, and then we have offices in Hayward, dublin, antioch, east, palo Alto, san Francisco, san Jose, oakland and yeah, so you're primarily then concentrated in like California then yes, we have students that are in other states, like Tennessee, georgia, oregon, nevada, chicago or Illinois rather, so we do have students in different areas, but for the most part we're in California.

Speaker 2: 2:51

Tell me a little bit about why you chose techers. Because I think people don't really connect people that deal with like survivors with technology or technology career paths. Where did that come from?

Speaker 1: 3:03

Well, so I a little bit about me, right? So I grew up in San-addicted, impoverished family in different ways and ended up in foster care as a two-year-old. My mom and I had periods of being homeless. She was a victim of domestic violence. We had a pretty rough way in the early days.

Speaker 1: 3:35

I was very interested in the arts and very interested in school and that was kind of my sustaining thing throughout my life, even though I was going through a lot of difficult circumstances and ended up, you know, going to college but didn't have anyone to help me financially. So it took me 10 years to get through. These are just examples of just like it being really hard, right? And and yet I ended up as a senior global senior sales leader at Cisco, you know, traveling the world, you know, making a very good way for myself in the tech industry. So that opened my eyes to the reality that there are these people that have experienced sexual trauma like I had, these people that experience homelessness and abuse and foster care, that had these amazing abilities that were being overlooked or weren't being cultivated, and I had. Honestly, I had a few people that were said like positive things to me along the way. That encouraged me to kind of see something more in myself, but I didn't have a mentor or like someone paving the way per se, and so I thought to myself, well, if I could be that person for another person and help them get to their, their purpose and their strength and their goals sooner and avoid some of the craziness I had to go through, then that would be really cool.

Speaker 1: 5:05

Some people never get there because they never find out what they've got in them, and I literally die on the streets. They become drug addicted or you know to deal with the pain and or become incarcerated because they had to go rob their way into a meal. And these are the kinds of things that for me, survivors of human trafficking kind of have been stereotyped, but they have a very similar profile to mine. I'm not, I'm a survivor of domestic violence, but not of human trafficking, but you know very similar profile to mine and I just I've just seen time and time again and working with survivors as well as others, so we work with other populations. There's just this similarity. And oh, you know, you've been through trauma, you have these challenges, you're probably not ready for attack and it's like not so, not so, not so.

Speaker 2: 5:54

Yeah, and I think one thing that you mentioned that resonates with me, right, I took 10 years to finish my degree and it wasn't that I didn't really have the means, it was more like I didn't have the motivation.

Speaker 2: 6:05

Everyone was saying, like education is going to be your ticket, it's going to be your pathway, and I just couldn't make that connection Right, and so for me it was just like I was super unfocused and, to your point, I think that a lot of people just don't see it for them, they don't see themselves, and that's why I think it's so important to have people like you that have paved the pathway and now are like just a model that people can look at and think differently about.

Speaker 2: 6:31

Like why can't I? Why, why, why shouldn't I be able to be successful in this field? Right, like what's the what's the reason, other than like it's mostly dominated by white male and asian males, but like there's no other barrier other than the normal barriers that that person already has to overcome, right, if they're justice involved, or if they're a survivor, if they're experiencing homelessness, sure, they still have those barriers, but they have have those anyways. Right, I think there's just like so much of an opportunity to like move that needle right. So I'm curious what was one of the biggest challenges starting this organization and getting it to this point where it's at right now?

Speaker 1: 7:08

Yeah, it's interesting. So I was a very successful business leader at the time that I started the organization. It was running million dollar business deals, sales opportunities, you know, at Cisco. And then, prior to that, I was an IT manager for Alameda County running multimillion dollar budgets. But here's the funny part Knew nothing about being a small business, knew nothing about being a nonprofit. I mean, like articles of incorporation and like forming a board and like P&L and balance sheets. It's like there are these things and there's a culture and there's language that I had no clue about.

Speaker 1: 7:46

And initially, when I started the organization 11, we're going into our 12th year when I started it, I did it on a voluntary basis, for, you know, for five years I think it was, and then I took a salary of $10,000 a year in the fifth year and you know, I didn't actually take a real salary, which is, you know, it's not a huge salary. But I didn't take that until I retired quote unquote from Cisco to do this work full time four years ago. Prior to that, I just really was a kind of part time, pseudo volunteer, ed and I did in the beginning. I did all the accounting, I did all the you know marketing. I, yeah, everything was a hot mess and but you know, but actually I did pretty good at it. I just didn't know what I was doing.

Speaker 1: 8:38

Mike, I was like calling in all my friends um pastor Rhonda Hastings as an accounting business, and I I would reach out to her and go, how do you do this, how do you do that? And she's like, oh yeah, we got to get accounting codes and we got to get know quick books up and running like thank you, right, dad?

Speaker 1: 8:56

then yeah, it's just been. It's been really a labor of love for me and a bunch of other people to get us to this point yeah, and I love the the route that you took in building that sort of like that village right yeah carrying a lot on your on your back, so wearing a lot of hats, but you know that's the struggle that we have.

Speaker 2: 9:15

We're much earlier on as an organization. We're just newbies in this space, but I'm I'm slowly but surely learning that I can't carry this all of this on my own and that I really do have to like really focus on building out, the putting the right strategic pieces in place to to make this an organization that can like scale and grow way beyond like what I'm. I'm always. Like I've said, a couple more hours in this day I can get a couple more of these things banged out. It's hard, it's hard.

Speaker 2: 9:43

Yes it is. What do you feel like is one of the biggest challenges that you know folks that you're serving face breaking into tech.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Well, I think, like one of the things that is kind of driving me crazy, we're having a conversation with a couple of HR departments because, on one hand, we're saying, oh, we need all this talent, we need entry level cybersecurity technicians, we need entry level agile scrum masters, and it's like you need a data scientist, that you're trying to pay entry level pay to someone who has data scientist skills, which is just not working Right. And I think you're relying on, maybe, someone who has a master's degree or four year university, who's out of work, who's willing to take a hit on their hourly wage Right to get in your company and then work their way up. But you know, my, my challenge to employers is like that's a losing strategy because as soon as that person gets a little cash in their pocket or they get a little more stabilized, you're going to, they're going to leave right that they're not going to have that allegiance to you. They're not. They have.

Speaker 1: 10:56

They have bigger, better things to do, whereas you have somebody who you can cultivate and grow from the beginning and move through. I mean, there's tons of data that shows like apprenticeships is the way to go, because organizations who embrace apprenticeships, they find that their managers, or long-term managers or long-term leaders, are those individuals that they invested in early on. Are those individuals that they invested in early on? There's a loyalty there and there's a pride there that people take in, having kind of grown up in that particular environment. It's a hard conversation because nobody wants to admit that that's what's going on, but it is.

Speaker 2: 11:32

I'm going through as well with you know, building and developing these employer relationships. We really try and focus on being an employer driven B2B where we need to provide value At least I think we need to provide value in terms of the people and the skills that they bring to the table, and often it's kind of invisible to employers that are just looking for senior engineers and they're looking for talent that just has like years of experience. The reality is like you said, they don't have the checkbook for that, right. The reality is like you said, they don't have the checkbook for that and and so they got sort of like their eyes and the appetite has to meet what their pocket can afford.

Speaker 1: 12:07

not only that, how much money are they losing on the turnover? I mean, you've spent all this time ramping up a senior type person and they're going to leave you in six to twelve months, so are you prepared to go without that? Have that position vacant for three months? Re-ramp somebody else up and maybe you're getting what you need out of that. But I would say, take a look at it, because I would. I would argue that if you just spent a little time making your your place you know your environment, apprenticeship ready and so to speak that would be great. And I did want to mention one thing about that. We've developed a curriculum called REDI, which stands for Racial Equity, diversity and Inclusion, and it's all about getting employers ready to receive the students that we are graduating from our programs.

Speaker 2: 12:56

And it comes from a point of kind of looking at your personal and organizational bias and also increasing your level of organizational empathy, and that, I think, is another barrier that we're seeing when we talk about the kinds of individuals that we're bringing in that come from nontraditional backgrounds?

Speaker 1: 13:37

Yeah for sure. What do you think are the habits or behaviors, when you think about candidates that best make that transition and can? Mostly people who have various disabilities, various challenges, either physical, psychological, hearing impaired, sight impaired, adhd, you name it. They have, you know, a variety of things that they're overcoming, and we talked about a kind of an ideal like this, the criteria for success, and so one of those and these can be, some of these can be taught and most of them can be taught. But time management right. Someone who can create and maintain a steady schedule and kind of show up on time. Someone who has some effective communication, knows how to ask for help, knows how to contact the instructor, describe problems that they're having, can study independently. Someone who's self-motivated, that has a strong desire to learn. Someone who has a basic reading, writing, math and computer literacy skill, meaning they can get on like a Zoom or on Teams, that kind of level. I'm not talking about anything more elaborate than that. And then someone who has some critical thinking and decision-making insights. And that's something I like to cultivate in a certain curiosity that I like to cultivate in a certain curiosity that I like to cultivate in folks.

Speaker 1: 15:02

One thing we have to understand, especially when you're dealing with BIPOC students, is if you've never been taught that it's okay to ask questions and to be curious about something or to not know things, or, you know, hide what you don't know. Don't be curious, don't ask too many questions, Sit back, be quiet. You know, even in some cultures don't speak unless spoken to. If you have, you come from that kind of home or culture and then also system, systemically, we know that we, you know we have the history of you know, sit back, boy, don't you know? Don't your opinion doesn't matter, Sit back, young lady, your opinion doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 15:45

So if you have that in you, then you've got to be awakened when you come into these learning environments to say, well, why does it work like that? Well, how explain to me why is there? What does that mean? Like I don't get it, and know that you have the right to take up the space to ask those questions, know that you have the right to not know and you have the right to ask and learn, and these are things that you know. If you don't feel like you have rights, period, you're just going to kind of go around and just be doing, receiving and doing whatever anybody tells you to do, and that's not what we need in these kinds of roles.

Speaker 2: 16:29

And I also, I think the spillover, the carryover of that, is when, because a lot of employers, I think they're not aware of this and so, as they start to engage with this population, they start to increase their cultural awareness and they start to really more deeply massage and change some of the very practices that are acting as inhibitors for the progress that they're trying to make, because they're just like they don't get it, like this is nothing that's ever been on their radar individually.

Speaker 1: 17:11

They don't get it Like. This is nothing that's ever been on their radar individually, and so it's hard for them to even like start to create and engineer solutions to a wine tasting event. We're going to a golfing event. I have no clue what to wear. What do what do I do at a golfing event? Do I wear jeans? Do I wear khaki?

Speaker 1: 17:32

So I start looking it up online at least I had the sense to to find out what and start asking what? How do I prepare for a wine tasting event? Are they going to tell me how to taste it? And then I had to learn how to smell the glass and how to look at the you know the wine dripping down the side and and all you know.

Speaker 1: 17:50

It's like the all these little things that you and describing the one and and here other people are doing that and they just assume you've come from that background and you know you. You know, you know what's going on. I didn't know the difference between Pinot and Cabernet and I didn't know any of that. You know. In fact, I only knew about strawberry bones, if I'm being 100. There you go, there you go. That's all I knew about. So I need people to understand that we're making assumptions about the folks and it's not a degrading, you know, there's nothing, there's no value, necessarily that we're assigned to it. But when we want to create an inclusive environment, we have to kind of think about what are we choosing to do? Are we, you know? And how is everybody in the room going to relate to whatever it is that we've chosen?

Speaker 2: 18:42

Yeah, so important. Is there anybody that you'd like to give a shout out?

Speaker 1: 18:45

to. I think I want to plug some of the organizations that have been supporting us James Irvine Foundation there's a ton of support coming from them. There's a variety of churches that are supporting us South Bay Community Church and New Hope Christian Fellowship. Some of these, some churches that are kind of undergirding our work, either in the, in our homes or in our community engagement center, or with our, our IT Biz Tech Academy, john Muir, community Health Fund these, these are some of the folks that are coming alongside us and saying you know, I see what you are doing, I believe in you, I'm investing in you and I'm allowing you to Cisco systems. We believe in where you're taking the students, in the sport that you're doing. And then, of course, I want to, I want to just shout out all my staff, my family. They've been tremendous.

Speaker 2: 19:35

So yeah, absolutely All right. Last and most important question absolutely all right.

Speaker 1: 19:41

Last and most important question what is your favorite snack? Favorite snack? Oh gosh, I don't even know if I can answer that. I would say I'm trying to get more towards a veggie fruit, okay, but it's always chocolate, always mike chocolate's good and it's healthy, yeah, not like peanut butter cups.

Speaker 2: 20:02

Moderation it's all in moderation, right. So this, you know it's got. It's got some good stuff in there. Yeah, all right, cool. Thanks so much for coming on the program appreciate it, thank you mike you've been listening to skills first, the apprenticeship playbook podcast. By the way, if this is valuable to you, don't be lame. Share the game. This is how we know you love it. If you're a thinking about changing how you hire, please share it so we know this type of stuff is what you want.